SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to Fractional Podcast, episode number 44. We are here with Dr. Lindsay Ruiz, Fractional COO and organizational... What do you... I'm blanking. What is this called that you specialize in, Lindsay?

SPEAKER_00: 0:17

So I'm excited to be here. I'm excited for this conversation. I feel like we're going to have a ton of fun. I am Lindsay Ruiz. You know, a lot of people don't call me doctor, so I'm very honored that you're using that title. But I go by Lindsey. I am an executive in the space of transformational change. I also knew and exploring my new path into fractional work as a COO or Chief Transformation Officer. And what I do in the simplest way I can put it is I facilitate and lead large-scale transformations for organizations. So when a company decides the way they do things is no longer working and they want to go and turn everything upside down and start over again and introduce new tools or new processes or new operating models or whatever the composition of the transformation needs to be, then I come in and help orchestrate it. I have a background in organization development, change management, operations, advertising. So there's a lot there to unpack when you're ready.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Awesome. So tell me, what's the catalyst for you to move into this fractional world? How do you get started here?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

It's been very serendipitous. I did not know anything about fractional, you know, the fractional space as a, let's say, as a discipline. But I I kind of feel like the work I've been doing and the roles I've been filling in are fractional leadership roles because I'm very dedicated to one specific initiative, you know, at very specific points in time that are very tied to specific goals. My role is not necessarily an organizational leader that, you know, stays in an organization for 20 years and sees that mine is very action-driven, hands-on, and very specific to things that are tied to strategic goals. initiatives and strategic goals that companies have punctually. And so I've been in this sort of soul searching stage for a couple of months now, looking to transfer everything that I've been doing into what the next chapter is going to look like. And I stumbled across the fractional world and I'm still learning. a little bit of the specifics to it, but I feel like it could be a really nice transition and I could bring forward everything that I've been doing without interruption and position in a more clear and certain way because I also don't, I don't do consulting work, which a lot of people confuse with the work of transformation, but I'm not a consultant and I don't work as a consultant and I don't want to work as a consultant. I'm a dedicated leader to be the face of the transformation for big companies. So I feel like it's a natural transition. I kind of saw this at some point and I adopted it too. I feel like my role is somewhat of expertise as a service type of role. And I feel that that also lines up really nicely or aligns very nicely with the fractional meaning of work.

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

I know we've got, Joshua's already teeing up more questions, but I want to ask you, so you mentioned a few months ago, you saw the light, so to speak, to come and adopt this fractional business model. But before this, are you working entrepreneurially as a transformation specialist? Are you working as an employee in a big corporate world? Are you working in small startups? What is the funnel that leads you to this point?

UNKNOWN: 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:58

Yeah, the breadth of it is I have been always a full-time leader. So I've been hired internally in organizations, most of them being Fortune 500 companies. It's been industry agnostic so far because I don't plug in at the industry level more than I do based on the strategy an organization has to mobilize people towards change. So it's very flexible in terms of industry or type of company. And I bring in my expertise to then facilitate those changes being orchestrated internally, bringing people along, creating strategies and roadmaps and execution programs to be able to move from point A to point B in a fraction of the time in which companies can really do this on their own. But it's always been internal. I'm always hired by the organizations I work for, and I sit in their leadership positions. executive leadership teams and I partner at the C-suite level and then cross-functionally.

SPEAKER_02: 5:01

You mentioned not being a consultant specifically. How would you, with your experience in this whole world and now diving into fractional, what do you see as the difference between the two? Because that's something Lance and I have talked about and I love to hear other people's perspective, fractional versus consultant.

SPEAKER_00: 5:19

So from my point of view, I feel like the consulting experience discipline still acts as an outsider to the organization, right? There's so much span of influence that they have. They can make a ton of recommendations and bring a ton of expertise. And obviously it's up to the organization to listen to the expertise and accept it or not. And the accountability still falls on the company's lap to take action, whether or not the consultant made the recommendations that were appropriate or accepted by the organization. and they can plug in and out without the accountability of the results of their recommendations. Whereas my role has the accountability. If I don't deliver, then my role fails basically. And I have the internal responsibility to build their relationships, the alignment, manage their resistance, organize the teams that need to execute, build the roadmaps. And I get to manage also third-party vendors. So if I get to, I get to hire consultants to work on my teams. as they might bring expertise the organization does not have and doesn't need to have for a long term, but we need in the very moment. So I get to bring together very complex team structures to be able to execute on these programs at a large scale.

SPEAKER_02: 6:42

I love how you distinguish that. There was a company that I worked at years in the past where they would bring me and others in as consultants and we'd kind of, we would listen to their team describe what was wrong. We would take those down as notes, present it to the executive team. Then they would pay us a large amount of money and we would walk away. And we had just told the leadership what the team internally already knew. And we got paid for that. And what we started doing is shifting toward, Hey, Let's actually work alongside your team to do the actual work, because for me, that was more fulfilling. So I love that distinction. And I recognize that I've experienced that myself.

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

Well, I can tell you that, you know, I've been in various programs, obviously, some of them I have gotten to do end to end, which is a year or two years worth of work. Some of them I'm brought in after they already spent all the money on big consulting companies the prior two years and they didn't get anywhere and they realized we need a less expensive option that is also internal that can take charge more directly. And I come in the middle of the movie and having to now connect all the dots very quickly, re-shape the program and re-plan the execution and the delivery in a shorter period of time, taking over from the consulting companies that have performed before me. So it's an interesting combination of skill sets and also how both roles could be perceived within the organization as they build the credibility that is needed to push through the resistance to change in particular, and how you manage some of the power structures that may be in place as well that some consulting companies are very, very good at navigating, but it's easier when you're an internal leader pushing through those boundaries.

SPEAKER_01: 8:38

Yeah, that's a really interesting point that you're bringing up because I've noticed for myself, right, as someone who is a little bit of a third-party point of view, not an employee, not a consultant, but somewhere in between, you still have a little bit more ability to push against dysfunctional power structures. Are you finding that to be true? as you explore this fractional role versus the internal hire? I

SPEAKER_00: 9:04

would expect it because it's always a factor, especially in the change world, right? I assume if you were coming from an operational point of view, you may encounter certain politics and resistance and things to go through, but you have an organizational breadth that kind of gives you latitude to be able to buy in time for yourself, for your team, for the new ones that that particular operating team needs to have to manage the day-to-day as opposed to somebody coming in for a specific deliverable that could be a long-term program. And you have to build credibility really, really, really fast, not only with the leaders you report to, the leaders you partner with, the teams that you oversee, and then the rest of the organization who's there observant as to whatever that can go wrong. Typically, you don't come in with the, you know, with the celebration and the red carpet to, To execute change. And so you always have to break through a little bit of the paradigms of what is possible. Are you trustworthy? Are you not? Those kinds of things before. And you have to do it very quickly because you're tied to a timeline of delivery. But I would assume there's a similar translation of experience on a fractional basis. especially if you are being brought in as another member of the organization. My understanding is that sometimes you don't even need to disclose that you're a fractional leader, like you just embed in and you should be seen as another person on the leadership team. Do you have a different point of view? No,

SPEAKER_02: 10:53

I want to add on to that because I love that distinction. I've found when you're trying to get work done as a company, you'll have the employees, the executives, consultants, And contractors and fractionals. And at the end of the day, if you're running the company, you're trying to get the thing done, right? To build the company, to grow, to keep going forward. And you have to wrestle with which of those elements are available to you to get the thing built, to get the thing done. And sometimes if you have individual contributor employees, they maybe don't don't feel within the culture that they have the ability to push back. And there's reasons, and Lance, this is like why he has a career and loves it. Like there's things you can do to improve that. But there are times, and I've seen this personally, when you have a little bit of an outside perspective, when you're fractional, you can say, hey, by the way, I'm seeing this in the industry. I'll help you do it. And here's how other people are doing it, maybe in different verticals. And for me, that's one of the benefits that I think fractional can bring.

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

Yeah. Adding to what you're saying here, Josh, was I think I see, and this is not anything revolutionary or groundbreaking, but I see degrees of freedom to push boundaries. So a consultant, which Lindsay, you are not, I like that distinction that you're making, right? A consultant can say, I don't care. Like you paid me, here's the bad news you don't want to hear. be very direct and blunt and take their check and walk away, right? Because they have no investment in what happens next. The employee, to your point, Joshua, may have a lot of ideas that are blunt and direct, but we'll keep them to themselves or maybe allude to them in an anonymous survey because the ramifications of being direct can be high in cultures that are not mature enough to handle direct feedback. And then you have this other option, which is kind of sitting in the middle, which is relatively newer-ish. And I think it's a blend of somewhere in between, right? Because you pay a fraction of my income, my revenue as a stakeholder. And if you don't like the bad news I have to give you, well, fire me, right? I have, I have other companies in my portfolio. I'm doing other work. Like I'm not dependent on you as an employer, like an employee is, but I invested and I care about the long term issue. So I won't keep quiet. And so it's this interesting pull between consultant, you know, completely external and then, you know, direct employee. And it sits somewhere in the middle, right? Yeah, I'm not sure that there's a question attached to that, but what's your reaction, Lindsay?

SPEAKER_00: 13:37

I want to go back to when we had our first conversation behind the, when we were planning for this, you know, I feel like, again, and please know that I'm coming in new to this. I'm discovering a new world. And so I'm comparing notes, but I feel like the word fractional is misleading. And sometimes, I don't know, it doesn't give justice to the actual work, especially if you're coming in at the C-suite level. I mean, if you're calling yourself a fractional CMO, fractional CEO, fractional CEO, I feel like the word fractional itself can arrest the importance of the figure, the leadership figure that you still are in those positions. And it gets it confused with these other roles that are different. Like you cannot, in my mind, I cannot compare a consultant role with a fractional CEO, a fractional COO. They're very two different sets of skill sets in the leadership maturity and the leadership capability really deliver two very different things in an organization. And obviously I'm not, it's too late to change the terminology, but I think that even as a fraction of your time, If you are in that organization, the days that you are in that organization, acting as a CEO, as a COO, as a CMO, feeling in those shoes, your only concern is to be the leader that you are there to be. in my view, like that's how I would digest that in my mind without putting the distinction of half outsider, but half insider. Like at the end of the day, you're there to lead people. You're there to help the organization become better than you found it. Your leadership has an impact still. You're still leading people. You're still leading capabilities. You're still gonna need to achieve some type of infrastructure, some type of results, right? Given your tenure. And I believe, want to think that you want to be remembered as a memorable, positive influence in the organization that left some kind of legacy once you're out of the fractional engagement, while a consulting role is predetermined to be halfway in, halfway out. It's set up to be that way because also if it's a good consulting engagement, I mean, they are there to make money. Everything that they propose and everything they don't propose has the intention of accumulating hours and more contract obligations with the organization. That's how they sustain their participation in those programs and in those organizations. But they never have the ultimate accountability for what the company turns out to be. Does that resonate with you? I

SPEAKER_01: 16:30

think so. I think what I'm hearing is that if I'm an employee, an individual contributor, maybe a junior employee at a company and our CMO is a fractional. If they're doing a really great job, I can't tell that they're a fractional. That

SPEAKER_02: 16:47

was my experience working with the CFO at a startup a couple of years ago. We actually have them on here in the past as a guest, Lee and Lee Swetton. One of the things is it felt like he was full time with us just because of his support and his presence. always having the answers we needed, always helping to make an impact on the financial direction of the company, a massive big deal, right? There to support the CEO. He would be there for the important meetings and he would be available on Slack to help make big decisions. He also ran HR as a secondary factor. And all of that, I found out later on, he was doing this for three, four other companies at the same time, but because he was so efficient and so successful, dedicated and good at what he was doing, each of those companies got that same kind of a feeling. And at the level of startup they were at, they could not have afforded him full time, but they felt like they were getting more of the value than the cost. And that was kind of my first experience with seeing this.

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

I like that. I mean, I feel like when you reach that level of seniority in your career, you also have achieved a level of maturity in your leadership mindset and who you are as a leader. And I think that those who have gotten to that point and have put the work in to become the best leaders they can be, the title, the fractional, non-fractional, it doesn't matter. That's a behavior. That is an ethic. That's an integrity. I think I want to hope that everybody that gets to that point at the C-suite level have developed their potential their value system of what it means to be a leader before they put forward their capabilities or their skillset and the things they can do. And I kind of feel like this is where the fractional terminology continues to be misleading for me. You know, like when you're growing in your career and they kind of, there are people that have this mindset of, oh, well, this is not my job, right? And that sounds kind of weird when you come across like that, like, I feel like if there's a C-suite level leader that says, well, I'm just a fractional leader here, that from the get-go is a turnoff. Like, that should be tacit and understood at the contractual level, but that, in my view, that should never come in the words and the definition of the role in the organization because, I mean, you are removing your complete credibility, the respect from people, your ability to make an impact just by saying, I'm just here a fraction of the time, so therefore... But I don't think that your leadership is defined by a title or a terminology if you have gotten to that seniority level in an organization.

SPEAKER_01: 19:36

I like what you're pointing out that you immediately do a disservice to yourself and anyone else who's a fractional professional by saying, I'm just a fractional. Because essentially the outcomes, the deliverables, the impact that you're expected to make and that you can make is like you were describing, Joshua, with Lee's impact. It is equivalent to the experience of working with someone who is an executive on the same level. So why be apologetic about it being fractional versus being full-time?

SPEAKER_02: 20:10

And this is a concept that we've had for a long time with lawyers, with accountants, with boards, right? You're on a board. You also have a company you're running. You're on multiple boards where you're bringing your expertise and sometimes decades of experience. That may not mean practically that you're offering 40 hours, but you're offering maybe 40 years. And that's kind of a distinction that I think is often lost here. I wanted to kind of ask you a question on this to move to another thing that I'd love to know. What lights you up to help people? What gets you excited in the morning that in your career, in what you do, just makes you love that? And what got you here? I love to hear that from people. I

SPEAKER_00: 20:55

grew up, so my situation has a lot of ties to my personal story. I'm one of those people that made the mistake to blend your personal life and your professional life and it's just one thing. And I say a mistake in a funny way because supposedly you don't let your identity get blended into the work that you do. But in my particular journey, it doesn't make sense any other way. I grew up in another country, I'm Venezuelan. My upbringing was very fragmented, so I had to adapt very quickly to different home environments, different schools, different everything, very, very fast. And for my entire upbringing, since I was born until I was able to break free and go to university and then leave my life to another country. And then And then I'm also an immigrant. So not only did I have to manage my upbringing in different ways, but I also decided, you know, I'm going to go to another country. I'm going to learn another language. I'm going to move to another big city. And then I'm going to start from scratch again. And I've done that several times in my story. And naturally that brought me into the field of transformational change and my degrees are in the same field. And so it kind of all blended together. in a way that made me understand or made me understood and be very sensitive to the fact that for people to be successful and flourish and grow and, you know, have the most fulfilling experience they can have in life and professionally, the environment in which those experiences happen really matter. And that's really the passion for me to do. create the proper environment for people to come together. I always say that my number one job is to connect people to one another because in the end, that's what you do to create change, to create an organizational life. You need important conversations to be had. And for those conversations to be had, you need an environment that equips people and allows people to truly show up in ways that don't feel coercive and abusive and hypocritical. And so I'm very passionate and very opinionated about that. And so I decided to turn it into my since I'm going to care about it anyway, and I'm going to talk about it anyway, and I'm going to do whatever I can to dismantle any dysfunction that exists so that we can actually just chill and have a normal work experience. It matters to me. It matters to me that, you know, when you go back and remember those moments, because they're very transitory, like those moments don't last forever. And the only thing you take with you is what you learned and what you you know, what made you a better person out of that experience. I want to play an active role in creating that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:06

I'd love it. I'd love to hear if you can anonymize it if you need to, but I'd love to hear a story where you, where your career has taken you. Like one of those moments of like, yes, this is why I do what I do. Like, I'm sure you've got a handful of those that are always top of my back. Do you mind sharing one with us? No, I

SPEAKER_00: 24:27

will share with you the first one that comes to mind. But yes, there are many of those. And I have to say, I have my little tiny little microscopic shelf of things that I feel like are that were absolutely impeccable and I'm super proud of. And then I have a huge thing of drawers full of failures and things that I don't even know how I navigated. But I both I mean, both both experiences really gave me. just a huge amount of humility and growth for myself that I can just be grateful. But I can share with you one of my early programs, let's say early, I don't know, seven years ago or eight years ago, I was leading a massive workspace transformation for a big high-tech company. And that was back in the days when open space was a thing. Remember when people got out of the offices and it was all flat spaces and everybody had to share furniture and computers and it was very communal and everybody's supposed to work agile and the company had mandated that. for their campus here in Raleigh, in North Carolina. And I came in to lead the transformation side of that in partnership with their workplace department. And so we had a cross-functional team to lead that, and my role was to enable the change. And part of the process included assembling a team It's typically called chain champions, but for us, they were more like hands-on design and really the ones in charge of turning around the culture and helping others come along and making decisions for their team. So it was a very important responsibility. And this was mandated in the first group that went in was a group of 500 engineers. in that organization who were old school, old fashioned engineers that basically when you walked into their spaces, they had cubicles that were complete tents, like they had their own sort of war spaces that were individual to each of them because they didn't talk to each other unless they had to. And so they had created their own individual you know, what do you call it? Igloos or whatever. And we have to break through those barriers because now they all have to co-mingle in the same space. They could not own any working area and they have to work with very minimal equipment. And I was the face of the change and the person that was supposed to convince them to do that. And so then we assembled this team that had 25 or 30 male engineers and two female engineers and myself. And when I came in, there was a consultant that was doing it. So I took over. And then the first thing I did was to assemble this group and see, okay, where are we with things? Everybody was really upset. I came in with my, this is what we're going to do. This is your role. This is my role, right? Kind of resetting expectations. And one of the things that I told them was that their role as leaders was was extremely critical and that we really needed to work on establishing our values from a cultural standpoint so that then we could operationalize them and replicate them for the rest of the 470 other engineers. And that I was hoping and I was expecting for each of them to work with a ton of integrity and to bring forward any concern and that we had open communications and transparency and all of that. And nobody said anything in my meeting. It was like muted. So I walk away, go back to my desk. And an hour later, I receive an email from the older female on the engineering team telling me that there was no way she was going to work with me on that and that she quit my project. program, not the company, but she didn't want to be a part of anything. So I said, oh my God, well, that's not good. So I said, would you give me 30 minutes to talk it through at least so that I can understand? And she graciously did. So we had a one-on-one. And in that conversation, she said to me that because I had asked them to work from a place of integrity, that that triggered her to take a step back because her integrity told her that this was not a good idea that she did not agree with it that she in fact was very upset like the rest of them and that she could not put her her i her he she could not represent in the way that i was expecting her to represent the group with something that she felt it was completely a waste of time and so i said to her i said well Now hear me why I need you because I don't need you here to be another person that repeats the same thing or that is lip servicing everybody. I need you here because exactly what you told me is the level of integrity that we need on this team. And if you are a truth teller, and if you are always coming forward, you never have to agree until you actually agree. But all I need is that you work with me to get to that point in which we all can see the value in which we all can co-create what this vision needs to be in real life. I need somebody like you on the team. And I said, and then the other reason why I need you is because you are, aside of myself, you are the only woman. And we have a 25-year-old young girl who is also on the team but doesn't have the trajectory that you have. And I need somebody to model what it is to be a female leader in a group of male-dominated engineers. I just got here. I don't have the respect. I don't have the credibility. I don't have the trust to model that. And so I need you to partner with me so that we can elevate these young girls so she can also join in the conversation. And the most gratifying thing about all of that was that she actually gave me a shot. She said, I'm going to think about it. And then she left. And then the next day she said, okay. I'm going to do it, but I'm always going to tell you the truth. And if I don't like it, and if I don't agree, and I said, I'm okay with that. Just give me a chance. Let's try to push through the first parts of these that are going to be the most complicated and be as honest as you need to be. And that is the project that I'm most proud of in my whole career. And we were able to deliver it. And I have more anecdotes from that whole experience. But that moment for me was defining because it was It played out in my also purpose to elevate other women in environments that are difficult and to find my own voice and my own courage to push through that.

SPEAKER_02: 31:31

I've got to ask a follow-up question because this kind of gets to the heart of one of the topics that I love, which is, How do you make it a safe space for someone to disagree, right? So my question is this, and I love this story. You've already established it's good if someone disagrees. You love that. Is there a level where maybe dissent or disgruntlement or some other D word that you're like, okay, this person has now gone too far. They shouldn't be here. Where do you figure that out? Because that's something I've wrestled with. Obviously, you very much want someone to speak and share when they're unhappy and you love that. I'd love to know your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00: 32:07

I think there's a difference between dissent and disagreement and disrespect and abuse i think that's the line i think somebody honoring their integrity and honoring their needs and being articulate about what those are and asking for the clarifications the support the guidance that they're looking for to make sense of what's happening and to connect to what you're trying to get to a common ground with with them or to bring up something that is toxic and dysfunctional and arbitrary and humiliating, it's acceptable and we should not be intimidated by that. And it also requires the self-awareness of recognizing the difference between somebody being disrespectful to you or challenging you versus they're just looking for somebody to be able to say all these things so that that person can hold the space for them and then help put it back on track. And to me, that is the magic of what this is all about. And then there's the other line of somebody who is abusive and manipulative and gossipy and brings something up for the sake of throwing a bomb, but not being able to take accountability for that. I think there are those behaviors that give you the indication as to whether or not that's something you need to entertain.

SPEAKER_01: 33:32

Yeah, I'm seeing something here and it feels like intent, disagreement, candor, feedback. The intent is that we all level up, right? The organization improves because of this hard thing that I brought to you. Even if I brought it to you passionately and it was clumsy and maybe it hurt your feelings, the intent is that we can all get better through this. Dissent, disgruntlement, disrespect, abuse has the intent to push someone else down so that I can look better or just sabotage everyone. If I'm going down, you're coming with me. So, yeah, you use the word a lot, integrity, Lindsay, and I think the intent concept is what's making sense in my head and it connects with that really closely. But why are we having this conversation? Is the point that we're dragging someone else down so I can be in a better position or we all want to level up? Yeah.

UNKNOWN: 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:28

Well, or are we having this conversation because I just want to sabotage the whole process and I just want to, you know... just be disgruntled. I've had other projects, and I can tell you one quick anecdote on that as to how I distinguish the difference between this woman and another woman. I was, again, high pressure, high chaos environment, big ERP being pushed through everybody's throat. I come in in the middle of the movie, everybody's upset. Obviously, they're upset with me without knowing me. And I come in at a really, really pressure time and start directing, as opposed to giving time for people to get a costume and give me some time. It was a life or death situation for the program that I had to intervene, being very new. And I'm in a phone call with a bunch of women who have been on the program for a long time, and I'm trying to negotiate with them certain deliverables and trying to position my team and da-da-da-da-da. And this woman in particular pretty much jailed me on that call and told me that I was nobody and who do you think you are? And you just got here and we've been here for so long. And I mean, all kinds of things. And then she hung up on me when I actually try to have a dialogue with her to say, well, but let's find commonality because now this is my responsibility. I am now responsible for what is happening here, even though I wasn't here. Yeah. And she basically hung up on me and threw a tantrum. And for me, that was the end of the conversation. So I have to escalate it and say, listen, I'm willing to work and make compromises and sit down and understand and empathize. And I understand the environment has a lot of anxiety and I can hold that. But this respect and showing behaviors that other people might think are okay to replicate is a very important big line that we are not going to cross here.

SPEAKER_01: 36:30

Yeah. I'm looking at our clock. We could talk to you for another hour or two. We can do a part two. So this has been so good. Yeah. We could just sit and listen to story time with Lindsay and hear how somebody who really knows how to do it works that adversarial stakeholder relationship like a professional. Thanks so much for sharing. How can a listener, if they're sitting here thinking, yeah, my company has got a serious issue. I wish we had a transformation specialist. How could somebody find you? How can somebody learn more about your work? How can they reach you?

SPEAKER_00: 37:05

Yeah, I'm very active on LinkedIn. I've been really taking a serious step of compiling, not only, I mean, they can see my professional experience, obviously, but I'm trying to use that in a more broader way to whoever goes into my LinkedIn profile gets to know me as a whole person. And that would be the reference point, I would say, you know, for somebody that is curious about what I do and who I am and the things I care about, they will have a good combination of, you know, between my posts and my little videos and the work that I display there. And yeah, they can contact me through LinkedIn. That's my primary, my primary place of where they can find me. So it'll be Lindsay Ruiz, my first and last name, L-I-N-D-S-A-Y-R-U-I-Z.

SPEAKER_02: 37:50

Perfect. And we'll put that into the show notes as well. We'll make sure we have a link to that. Thank you so much. I want to just kind of wrap up here that if anyone has any questions, please send us an email, email at fractional.fm and reach out to Lindsay directly if you want to hear more. And it was so great having you on here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

Yeah, me too. I'm excited for this and thank you.